About Mindtrick

[Panar Shrell]

Okay, prior to the post, I only just got back 2 days ago and I am astonished and overjoyed to see that this game is still running-you guys are awesome.
Gushing done.

So, Mindtrick... I've had mixed results from asking people in the community about it, some say it's fine and I shouldn't be comparing it to the sith powers, and others say it used to be overpowered but got downgraded a bit too heavily. I notice that it's still just as it was in the old days; invisibility. Truth be told, I never thought that was quite fitting for it, ever since base jka.
I notice that there's been a few additions to the UI. Helmets, Fire, the sonic freakout grenade, and it got me to thinking that something could also be applied to Mindtrick. Then I got to thinking about this clip from the clone wars;

What if mindtrick's targeting method was made similar to Force Grip, focusing it on someone to slowly influence their mind further and further. What if it had an effect like, say, its first incarnation is disrupting or fading out the crosshair of the target? Making them hear things in opposite or even random directions? Losing their radar, inverting their mouse, locking out class abilities, and all the while, the stronger the mindtrick has influenced them the more hazed their vision gets-be that blurry, sparkling, or otherwise.
Maybe doing it while in Melee (fists) would increase the range at which you could do it? Risky, since the moment you start they'd be able to look around for where you're hiding and shoot your head off.

The current mindtrick is nothing compared to the other powers, if nothing else can be agreed on, please hear me out and analyze that statement alone.
And to those that will undoubtedly say that some suggestions I made above are totally overpowered and too strong to do, I threw multiple options out for consideration, I'm not demanding everything I mentioned be included. Also consider that Force Grip takes about 3 seconds of constant crosshair cover to take its full effect of leaving you immobile and defenseless-this would take time to do its own effect, or multiple effects. Hell, maybe it could take as long as 6 seconds of the same constant crosshair lock in order for all of its effects to take hold, and they would only last all of the time the force grip ability typically does.

I'm not here to make my weeaboo jedi godlike... I'm just trying to run ideas by to possibly have a chance to better something I've loved since I was a teenager.

...All that said, comments and concerns below

 

[*LCG* High Overseer.rec.]

Allow Mindtrick 4 from jka. Let's mind control soldiers off cliffs, and make them tk

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Mindtrick 4 - single target ability that vanishes all players, allies and enemies, from the players field of view.

Nothing to see here folks. Nothing.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I think mindtrick should be buffed a little, but I want to hear the footsteps when they run at me.
The only time I shouldn't hear footsteps is when they are walking.

 

[Durante DLH]

Maybe it could make fake enemies appear or misplace things? It would be funny if a enemies blaster got replaced with a womp rat at full level.

 

[*LCG* High Overseer.rec.]

Maybe it could make fake enemies appear or misplace things? It would be funny if a enemies blaster got replaced with a womp rat at full level.

Mindtrick replaces some of your team's models with the enemy's models? temporarily on your screen? That would be lels, and classes wouldn't be exclusive, so you have a jetpacking old ben anyday.

 

[Durante DLH]

Mindtrick replaces some of your team's models with the enemy's models? temporarily on your screen? That would be lels, and classes wouldn't be exclusive, so you have a jetpacking old ben anyday.

But the TK, and all the blame on mindtrick for it would have it changed fast.

 

[ZwM]

I believe a lot of camera effects, blurs, spinning etc. isn't doable because of the same reason poison dart got it effect removed. It didn't work on all machines the same way.

I also don't agree that mindtrick is weak. Sure it's not the most used power like push, but it's useful. It sometimes might help to break through a tough defense of imps and push the front forwards.

One possibility could be that mindtirck would randomly every 3 seconds disable your vision for like half a second. These are just examples, these numbers might differ, but it would be actually interesting as a weapon. You have to target someone in melee mode and than he gets this effect. Every 3 seconds he can't see anything, but darkness. It would require a lot of adjusting etc. but it could work.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

I prefer changing the ability from "These are not the droids you are looking for" to look around you motherfuckers, 'The droids you're looking for are everywhere!'

As in the jedi mind tricks the target into seeing every player, be they friend or foe, as the jedi trix-star.

 

[Durante DLH]

Maybe it could make all enemies go invisible for one focused target, but not the lasers. Meaning say a Sith may need to track the lasers to find where the enemy is.

 

[AgentGibbs]

I think mindtrick should be buffed a little, but I want to hear the footsteps when they run at me.
The only time I shouldn't hear footsteps is when they are walking.

But you're mind tricked to not know your enemy is there, so hearing foot steps defeats the purpose of mt

 

[Gargos]

imo mt is already pretty stronk, especially when you combo it with speed.

 

[Panar Shrell]

The following post is for information purposes
Level 1 Mindtrick, 8 points. 50 forcepower, Lasts 2.5 seconds
Level 2 Mindtrick, 4 points. 30 forcepower, Lasts 2.5 seconds
Level 3 Mindtrick, 8 points. 30 forcepower, Lasts 4 seconds

Total of 20 points​

Level 1 Speed, 2 points 25 forcepower to start, 15 forcepower per second.
Level 2 Speed, 4 points 25 forcepower to start, 10 forcepower per second.
Level 3 Speed, 6 points 25 forcepower to start, 5 forcepower per second.

Total of 12 points.​

Using both at the same time at max level leaves you with 32 fewer points, do-able, but risky point allocation.

Now, Force Speed lets you initiate it for a quickened attack at level 3, which will give an edge in combat in general if your target doesn't respond with a push or blasterfire. Speed is fine.

Mindtrick lasts a maximum of 4 seconds, the moment you ignite your lightsaber it fades, and if you take damage during those 4 seconds, you are "briefly revealed." The two droid classes and the bounty hunter have anti-mindtrick abilities, and because your lightsaber is off, you can't benefit from the damage reduction from holding the "Block" key while it's active.

Let's look at Sith for a moment.
When in melee, Sith with Grip 3 and Push 3 can use it for a superpush into the air (I was once smashed into a ceiling with that on my poor soldier)
When in melee, Sith with Lightning 3 and Push 3 can use their very volatile lightning to shove people onto the ground while being electrocuted.
These are bonuses for being in melee, and unlike mindtrick, Grip keeps a single target from being able to move/attack and Lightning keeps at least one target from being able to attack. They disable the ability for defense.
Mindtrick can still be attacked, and it is a very short window that people can suppressive fire or hold their guard up to counter-in the meantime, the jedi that used it has lost a third of their force power pool just on that alone, and they always know because of the mindtrick sound effect. Perhaps make it so that while Melee is selected, the sound effect is removed from mindtrick.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Bring back 7 second mind trick!

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

But you're mind tricked to not know your enemy is there, so hearing foot steps defeats the purpose of mt

Try fighting somebody invisible while only using your ears, tell me how that works out for you.

Mindtrick works like a cloak, but it bugs me how fast it vanishes. I think it should be extended a little bit and should be audible unless walking.

 

[AgentGibbs]

Try fighting somebody invisible while only using your ears, tell me how that works out for you.

Mindtrick works like a cloak, but it bugs me how fast it vanishes. I think it should be extended a little bit and should be audible unless walking.

But think of it how mind trick actually works they are tricking your mind to think they are not there meaning they are blocking your ability to know they are there so you should not know they are there by sound or sight. Besides this is a team game and you should have a sith with you to fight mt jedi. You arent supposed to be able to fight mt jedi by yourself thats why its balanced it required teamwork which is the basis for this entire game.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

But think of it how mind trick actually works they are tricking your mind to think they are not there meaning they are blocking your ability to know they are there so you should not know they are there by sound or sight. Besides this is a team game and you should have a sith with you to fight mt jedi. You arent supposed to be able to fight mt jedi by yourself thats why its balanced it required teamwork which is the basis for this entire game.

Well from my experience; Sith typically fuck off in a random direction and forget about the rest of the team. Forcing me to fend by myself and switching to SDB because that class and droidka can yield results without team assistance. So as you can see balancing the game around teamwork falls apart when people decide to be assholes.

Also helps that SBD can directly counter mindtrick even though hes a droid and doesn't have a brain to trick but somehow can still suffer from it without having the perk that counters it. Which doesn't make sense but whatever "video games".

 

[Durante DLH]

Well from my experience; Sith typically fuck off in a random direction and forget about the rest of the team. Forcing me to fend by myself and switching to SDB because that class and droidka can yield results without team assistance. So as you can see balancing the game around teamwork falls apart when people decide to be assholes.

Also helps that SBD can directly counter mindtrick even though hes a droid and doesn't have a brain to trick but somehow can still suffer from it without having the perk that counters it. Which doesn't make sense but whatever "video games".

When thought about, mind trick may actually be balanced, but we will never know since no one gives two shits about teamwork. It could have been designed as a trick only Sith can see through, giving the gunners a reason to have a Sith with them. But again, since no fucks are given about teamwork, we may never know if it is truly balanced.

I believe that mind trick may be hard to balance though, as right now teamwork is very low, and it seems like a skill in which that is needed to counter. One of the biggest things the developers will have to address in the development of the mod is a balanced saber and system in general, as right now it's quite hectic how everything works. I believe there should be a push for teamwork, and maybe for less spam of one class, before stuff like this get addressed, as there will be no use building a skill around something that may get changed.

But this is just my opinion, and nothing may change even. But based on what I've seen from the mod so far, this should be at the bottom of the list untill everything is decided.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Actually I think mind trick is under powered because of how fast it depletes, which is why I advocated to make it longer and add a noise mechanic to it.
So if people who want to be sneaky, can still be sneaky but they just cant run at people while cloaking.

 

[Goliath-A.I.]

Keeping mind trick as it is allows A.I. to utilize the SBD's full potential due to not needing to invest into anti-mind trick.
If mind trick were to be buffed, points would be needed to defend against it, and SBD units would be much weaker as a whole.
I desire that Stassin does not add mind trick onto the list of jedi advantages against droids.