1.4 open beta skillgap duels

[SeV]

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't even consider producing this kind of video, but since there's been a considerable amount of people expressing that they have difficulty killing eachother and ending duels quickly, I thought I would hop on and play a few rounds. Today I have demos from 5 rounds in total. 2 duel rounds and 3 open rounds. Yellow and red is used, but I would be able to kill any duelist significantly worse than myself very quickly with a stance like cyan or blue too. Certainly with purple/staff and duals. It's not so much about the stance as it is about showing you guys that it is actually possible to have short duels.

Video description:
Yeah, 1.4 duels are really slow right? Turtling players have a massive advantage right? Even a skilled player can't kill people fast right?

This was just from 5 demos I had recorded earlier. I was even lagging with 110-130 ping and lagspikes as I dueled. If I had spent more time I could've showed you this with each and every style, even blue and cyan. So, is offense weak? Is offense easy? Is defense easy? Is defense OP?

Note: Vid just uploaded so if quality is bad wait awhile for youtube to process 720p

 

[Coul]

Poor Count Sudooku

 

[Jeob]

The duels against me were cut out, yay.

 

[SeV]

Heh, Count sudooku is not a bad player actually. But I didn't have alot of time/choice playerwise as only a few were on o.o

 

[Gumba]

Even I could beat the guys you beat in the video.

 

[agentoo8]

I don't get it though...you've been working on this system for quite a long time and thus know the ins and outs; whereas most players (particularly those playing in beta open server, I'd wager) don't. I get what you're saying, but red vs someone who can actually pb/play defensively in this patch is a different barrel of fish.

 

[agentoo8]

To be fair though I think we just need time to adapt to it, and it won't be as bad as we make it out to be (with a few minor adjustments as per the open dueling feedback thread)

 

[SeV]

Right. I think it'll be alot better once people adapt well. Thing is that the new system has alot of depth to delve into, so it may be a bit unforgiving for casual players vs not so casual players. Still, Stassin and I think that we shouldn't 'dumb' the system down because it has a very high skill-ceiling.

To be fair the the guy I dueled in the video, I think he was doing quite alright, but yellow is the perfect match-up against purple and purple stance in general is something that takes a vast amount of skill to play well against many different stances. Same with red because of their low BP modifiers.

About Red being different vs ppl who can PB/play defensively very well. I've dueled stassin with red in the internal beta and our red duels were quite fast. It was basically like the system in yellow vs yellow, except much more high risk/unforgiving, with different mechanics. Red vs yellow can be difficult and red vs blue/cyan certainly is, but that doesn't stop the base mechanics of the style from working.

I think once red has been returned a proper length stagger and ppl get used to using it, they'll find it a strong stance just like before. ppl are used to having the PB drain perk which allows them to play defensively to a certain extent, but current red is like a berserker stance with the opportunity for a very skilled player to use PB+counters to his advantage, but the strategy being risky due to the low BP modifier. By proper stagger I mean a stagger long enough to allow you to get in a nudged single hit after a combo (to get 2 ACC), if you are in proper distance, but not long enough to 'lock' down opponents for 2 full bursts.

 

[Firestrike]

video

I was wondering about the counter you had at 4:43-4:44 in your video. Does that delayed DW swing you made still register as a counter? Or does it need to be the one of the more instant counters to receive the damage bonus? I keep questioning it when it comes up in my duels.

I like your yellow and nudge timing.

 

[SeV]

Ah right. Basically to receive the 1.2x BP dmg benefit it needs to be a PB+counter and the timing on it is tight. So a slow attack after a PB means that it's not a full counter and only the PB+Counter insta swings/full counters, get the damage buff.

 

[Alcatraz]

<- Sexellent, I kept backing off, im not the best dueler, if good at all. prime example of noobies "trying to have fun"
its not there

 

[Alcatraz]

although, i do experiment with dueling systems, hopping back and forth from 1.3 to 1.4
PB Combo Stop is Great (and a must in my opinion)
None Directional Combos is Great (and a must in my opinion)

Going back and forth i find myself doing worse and worse.
1.3 yeah sure, pb, but the combo will still be done upon to you, even if you try to counter you will get slapped
same in 1.4 Slapping and nudging shouldn't be the prime reason to win a duel.

Maybe i dont Understand the mechanics of the duels in 1.4 . but thats the way i see it after playing, gameplay wise i love it
dueling wise, i wish it was a merge between 1.3 and 1.4

 

[Flooven]

The only reason people think duels take way too long at all, is because they are still playing it like 1.3, just Pblocking more. There is a lot more to the system than just focusing more on Pblocks.

 

[Jeob]

Even I could beat the guys you beat in the video.

But how fast, that is the question . At 1:04 I'm also having a duel in the background, and I think I killed my opponent 15-20 sec later than Sev did.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Now use Cyan against a good Blue user and tell me if it ends in under 4 minutes.

Obviously Red/Yellow against not so good players will stomp. You can kill an inexperienced player in 3 seconds flat with red in 1.3.

 

[Alcatraz]

Now use Cyan against a good Blue user and tell me if it ends in under 4 minutes.

Obviously Red/Yellow against not so good players will stomp. You can kill an inexperienced player in 3 seconds flat with red in 1.3.

agree 100%

 

[SeV]

Now use Cyan against a good Blue user and tell me if it ends in under 4 minutes.

Obviously Red/Yellow against not so good players will stomp. You can kill an inexperienced player in 3 seconds flat with red in 1.3.

Anything vs not so good players will 'stomp' as you so eloquently put it. I managed to record a few cyan vs blue duels today. Some cyan vs cyan and even a couple of cyan vs yellow too. It's coming in a new 1.4 open beta duel video. Note, it's very hard to find ppl at my level playing the beta, so while some of the duels in the upcoming video may look 'stompy' as Achilles would put it, I still think the ppl in this upcoming duel vid are a bit better than the ones I played against in this skillgap video. It's obviously not very easy for me to get mountains of footage against challenging opponents in this open beta cause I can only play at odd hours + ppl haven't fully adapted to 1.4 yet. Still, I hope it will help alleviate your qualms about cyan to a certain extent.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

This video definitely shows the potential of this current system as it can really strongly differentiate between a good and bad player. I do have to say that some things I find a little bit too overwhelming are things like Red 3-hitters and nudge-instas.

I think the core mechanics are now really well-refined. The next step for the system should be style differentiation through behavioural changes for some of the more 'broken' stances. Something like this:

Red
I'd love to see red changed into a stance that can't combo out of a hit, but in exchange it can stagger any non-perfectblocked hit. Essentially a powerful 1-hitter, that relies on suppression and timing. Weaken defense slightly, make it really reliant on player's perfectblocking.

Purple
Prevent anything more than 2-hit combos. Weaken defense, strengthen offense. Make it really reliant on player's perfectblocking.

Cyan
Prevent anything more than 3-hit combos. Turn this into a style that's all about interrupting enemy attacks. If enemy hits you before you hit the enemy, you stagger, but if you manage to do so yourself, you deal additional damage on the first hit.

 

[agentoo8]

Purple had 2 hits before, and it was merely a gimmick style. 3 hits makes it feel more fleshed out. Against a good opponent in the current iteration of 1.4, purple is pretty damn hard to use effectively and you have to make use of the PB component excessively.

I like the red idea; powerful single hits. Though if these hits were reliant on nudge then it would be meh. As it stands now, red hits are easy to PB due to their slow swingspeed forcing us to use nudge (which I don't particularly agree with as I like versatility/aerial crazy red)

 

[Helix]

TBH, SeV, this video is very... biased, I'd say? You and stassin were changing this system, let's be honest, to your liking. It is obvious that you both will have a significant advantage over the guys who've started the beta for the first time.