R20+ Feedback

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I played a bunch of MBII again recently so here's as much of my two cents whether you want them or not.

Gunner v Saber is pretty unsatisfactory. Saberists are rewarded for just powering through a good gunners aim by running and swinging at their opponent like a monkey. The only time knockback matters is if the saberist is swingblocking the blaster fire from my experience. God forbid you are playing legends where some saberists get armor, healing, passive health regen or knockback resistance, but I guess that's why almost every single legends gunner gets a saber-like weapon. It really feels like the buffs to gunners and nerfs to saberists have been misplaced in my eyes.

Force Attunement has been haunting me ever since the first time I laid my eyes unpon it. I'm still trying to figure out what it meaningfully adds to the game compared to the more free point allocation of before. It feels like it complicates what should be a rather straightforward point buy system for no meaningful gain. I think it would be more interesting to tie force focus, force pool and maybe force regen (in or out of meditation) to it and remove the force attune requirements from other skills.

Force Power changes I do actually like so far. Bringing push and pull more in line and giving push an aiming requirement saving a few points feels meaningful and rewarding. I must say however, the changes were a bit hard to figure out in-game as I pretty much had to dig through the patch notes to find out what they do now. I'll give the same praise to force speed and saber throw with some extra, they both feel good to use and look good while using them, is it possible to add some cool mist VFX to push and pull? The only exception here is force lightning, I tried some push 3 + lightning 3 gameplay and it just felt either bugged or I'm not understanding it yet fully, so I'll withold judgement for now.

Dueling seems fun and dynamic so far though I'm not really a 24/7 dueling guy so my feedback is limited. Only thing I'll say here is that I love that it's being actively worked on, and the only thing that has me scratching my head at times is how chaotic some saber exchanges can be with proper yawing and swing speed buffs from counters. Perhaps bringing the styles swing speed closer together could do some good for this? Or maybe just normalizing swing speed across styles? (light, medium, heavy)

Now one more big thing...
Open is getting too serious, I'm sure this patch would play great in balanced 5v5 or 10v10 more competitive matches, but with the addition of getups for all gunners you have (intentionally or not) effectively removed one of the more fun mechanics in open that is melee fights. I'm fully aware that this might just be an unintentional side effect like the removal of nade jumping (without annoying scripts) when secondary nade got changed many years ago, which is a change I still support, but these changes shouldn't need to come at the cost of beloved mechanics. So I would say, figure out a way to bring back nade jumping and melee fights but keep the balance changes you intended here, I truely believe it's possible and I would gladly help brainstorm a way to get it done.
 
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Sorry bossman but as you can see Open's current state is more cultural, clearly years of unpopular changes (nadejump among others) played no part in the fall of what was once mb2's most popular mode.

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Gunner v Saber [...] The only time knockback matters is if the saberist is swingblocking the blaster fire from my experience.
Correction to this, I must've been mixing this up with the way it worked pre R20. You no longer get knocked back if you swingblock properly, however there is still some strangeness going on here especially around tight timings as shown here

(Thanks for helping me test and record @ThEra :kyloheart:)
 
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Correction to this, I must've been mixing this up with the way it worked pre R20. You no longer get knocked back if you swingblock properly, however there is still some strangeness going on here especially around tight timings as shown here

(Thanks for helping me test and record @ThEra :kyloheart:)
i've noticed knockback sometimes is completely nonexistent on jumpswings. did you guys test those as well? curious to see what's most consistent
 

Bud

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Gunner v Saber is pretty unsatisfactory. Saberists are rewarded for just powering through a good gunners aim by running and swinging at their opponent like a monkey.
I agree that saberists are encouraged to play more recklessly because of the recent changes to repulse. Instead of having to hold block or stop running, saberists can just charge right through and only receive a stagger that lasts 1 second.
 
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Force Attunement - I'm still trying to figure out what it meaningfully adds to the game
I can tell you! Nothing

It feels like it complicates what should be a rather straightforward point buy system for no meaningful gain
Correct

I think it would be more interesting to tie force focus, force pool and maybe force regen (in or out of meditation) to it and remove the force attune requirements from other skills.
Just get rid of it. Problem solved

Dueling - Only thing I'll say here is that I love that it's being actively worked on
Big up @Leons

the only thing that has me scratching my head at times is how chaotic some saber exchanges can be with proper yawing and swing speed buffs from counters
The issue is broken hitboxes. It's been mentioned a lot in the MBII discord & people are aware of how much it's affecting dueling, especially for new players who simple do not understand the system. If anyone tells you hitboxes are fine - they're lying

Or maybe just normalizing swing speed across styles? (light, medium, heavy)
Absolutely do NOT do this

There's my 2c bully
 

ThEra

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Correction to this, I must've been mixing this up with the way it worked pre R20. You no longer get knocked back if you swingblock properly, however there is still some strangeness going on here especially around tight timings as shown here

(Thanks for helping me test and record @ThEra :kyloheart:)
One of the devs recently mentioned the timings might be related to mblock (or at least were in the past), so if tempest was making changes to mblock with r20, it might also have affected swingblock vs shots interactions? Idk. Have any pro duelists noticed any iffyness about mblocking?
 

Leons

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One of the devs recently mentioned the timings might be related to mblock (or at least were in the past), so if tempest was making changes to mblock with r20, it might also have affected swingblock vs shots interactions? Idk. Have any pro duelists noticed any iffyness about mblocking?
MBlock timing felt noticeably tighter in R20 Open Beta. Never investigated though.
 

ThEra

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MBlock timing felt noticeably tighter in R20 Open Beta. Never investigated though.
Sounds like that might be it then. All because roguewookiee was disarming tempest a bit too much for his liking that one dueling session!
 
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Just wanted to say I 100% agree about the get-ups in open. Every class should not have them. Now melee fights are gone and everyone is flyin around ninja style. It just seems like a roundabout way to try to 'nerf' knockdowns and pull/push, instead of addressing the problem directly, which causes a whole new set of unintentional problem in its wake.

It's really the only thing I don't like about the patch. Negative impact on gameplay. I would rather just have that reverted entirely.
 

NotJoel

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Idk man how many % of people do a melee fight in open unless its a last 1v1. I feel like in exchange for that you get smth with a merit. I dont think getting perma stunned in this game is fun at all and despite the getup change you still get stunlocked by nade spam or jabas charging at you without being able to do anything except watching
 
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I dont think getting perma stunned in this game is fun at all
Then nerf push/pull lol. Add a cooldown, or make the knockdown duration smaller. Extremely easy solutions. If the devs wanna work a little harder, add a small force knockdown invuln window after getting knocked down by a force power.. or make force power knockdowns different than the other forms of knockdown, and allow get-ups in the former but not the latter.
This is exactly what I meant by 'roundabout way' that causes intentional problems. There is a direct solution to the problem yet they make an indirect change that messes with other things as well.

People don't like getting stunlocked, according to you, so instead of just adjusting the thing that makes you get stunned, they made a change to all the classes that changes game balance in unintended areas.

edit: the only argument i see against push/pull cooldown is that it would make nades/rockets way stronger. idk. personally I dont think this whole change was even neccesary in the first place, and now even default soldiers are performing getups and its just way different now.
 
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Idk man how many % of people do a melee fight in open unless its a last 1v1. I feel like in exchange for that you get smth with a merit. I dont think getting perma stunned in this game is fun at all and despite the getup change you still get stunlocked by nade spam or jabas charging at you without being able to do anything except watching
It wasn't part of the regular gameplay loop, and I don't think it should be, but it definitely was something that just happened sometimes. For example, if someone ran out of ammo the other would change to fists for fun, or if someone tried to melee kata you a fist fight could just start, again, for fun. The getup change just makes it even more unlikely for people to even attempt to kata because most classes are just too slow to chase a rolling opponent, and I don't think people really enjoy melee fighting without being able to kata each other.
 
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Maybe there needs to be a distinction in the types of knockdown, so that there is still a reason to even use melee katas.
 

ThEra

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Then nerf push/pull lol. Add a cooldown, or make the knockdown duration smaller. Extremely easy solutions. If the devs wanna work a little harder, add a small force knockdown invuln window after getting knocked down by a force power.. or make force power knockdowns different than the other forms of knockdown, and allow get-ups in the former but not the latter.
This is exactly what I meant by 'roundabout way' that causes intentional problems. There is a direct solution to the problem yet they make an indirect change that messes with other things as well.

People don't like getting stunlocked, according to you, so instead of just adjusting the thing that makes you get stunned, they made a change to all the classes that completely changes game balance in unintended areas.

edit: the only argument i see against push/pull cooldown is that it would make nades/rockets way stronger. idk. personally I dont think this whole change was even neccesary in the first place, and now even default soldiers are performing getups and its just way different now.
You're making this all about push/pull when being stunlocked by knock down from nades and rockets is even worse considering u cant even negate it by walk/crouch/standing still. Especially in legends where most classes have multiple and various nades.
 
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You're making this all about push/pull when being stunlocked by knock down from nades and rockets is even worse considering u cant even negate it by walk/crouch/standing still. Especially in legends where most classes have multiple and various nades.
he said "despite the getup change you still get stunlocked by nade spam" so i figured nades and rockets is precisely what he WASNT talking about.
 

ThEra

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he said "despite the getup change you still get stunlocked by nade spam" so i figured nades and rockets is precisely what he WASNT talking about.
I mean if ppl want to have kata fights again in open mode why not make melee more meaningful and have kata grabs more reliable and faster?

I think the roll getups are a good change so you dont get the feeling of "oh i guess ill die" 90% of the time you're knocked down.
 
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