Saber vs gunner

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Countless dueling guides. Why not a single saber vs gunner guide? Probably the hardest thing to learn. You can practice in dueling servers but your fkt even attempting to learn trying to practice against the experienced gunners. I'm sure there's plenty of tactics to use but mann is it painful even trying to experiment.
 

Leo

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People who make dueling guides usually play or focus on duel gamemode, so they can not really make a guide for open.

You have a good point tho, I don't know why haven't anyone from open try to make a guide. Even overall some modern open guide, and not just saber vs gunner.
 
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I made this a while back.
Tbh this isn't very useful compared to the current gunner player base. Doesn't really teach the yawing/advanced tricks required to really kill the stutter stepping gunners where force push isn't viable.

I'm kinda just salty a lot of the tricks I see advanced players use in open is only really shared person to person. A single example flip swinging. Other information like baiting a droidekas energy blast and SBD crouch blocking is also only really shared in game after asking a bit.
 
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One thing people seem to do is using diagonal movement to advance towards an enemy gunner while strafing to avoid blaster fire, but keeping their player model facing a different direction than the one they're moving in. I've noticed this is more difficult to aim against since your brain probably predicts they'll move towards where the model faces. So basically add diagonals and mouse turns into your movement mix to throw gunners' aim off better.

Pull is a handy extra ability since even if the enemy runs it not only throws their aim off for a split second by repositioning them, and while push does that too, pull doesn't throw the gunner further from your reach if knockdown fails. That short moment can be an opening for slashing them without getting shot.

I haven't tested it or checked any data on it but I've got a hunch duals have a little faster windup than yellow does so it's another little thing you can have to get your swing in faster, and duals deal more damage than cyan or blue do which tend to not one-shot most units with the current armor calculations.

My last thing is something tutorials don't really go into which is learning to recognize players. Of course, some use aliases, in which case it's just good to be cautious around padawans. Anyway, learning the usual tactics specific players use is the way to learning to mix things up or at least avoid using the most obvious things that they can easily counter. Changing tactics on the fly and relying on your team more to bring down more experienced players is outright one of the fun parts of the game. People also have their own quirks, like a rhythm shifting between run and walk, when they might use specific knockdowns or other abilities besides shooting. They're subtle but it's often something people do subconsciously and you can recognize it if you look for it.
 
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I agree there is a lack of resources regarding this topic. I can share some of what I know regarding saber vs gunner, but keep in mind I'm not a big open player.

Saber vs gunner can be tricky for both parties. Some argue its far easier for the saberist, and while that may be true because of their ability to disable a gunner with force powers and get a kill in with one swing, I'd argue thats not really the case (especially when you take into account multiple reinforcements, dash, quick throw grenades, jetpacks, flamethrowers, poison darts, dexterity etc.). In general its a lot harder to be a good saberist than a good gunner. Its not easy for the saberist to figure out how to get close without taking too much FP damage, and then also land a killing blow.

The main thing a saberist and gunner will be fighting each other over is the saberist looking for an opening to use a force power for an easy kill while the gunner isn't holding walk, and the gunner looking for windows where he can micro-run for a split second to gain distance/evade swings. Against competent gunners this can be very tricky, as they are very tight with their movement. This is the CORE of a saberist vs gunner fight, since one mistake by either party usually leads to them losing the fight. Either the saberist fails a push/pull which leads to a waste of FP and possible HP(or even straight up death) from inability to block after using a force power, or the gunner fails with running, gets knocked down and dies.

Now, since a competent gunner will be really hard to knock down, you will need to close the gap to deal with him. There are many ways to go about this.

At long-mid range deflect can be quite useful, as it can allow you to possibly kill a wounded gunner with a few of his blaster bolts. Deflecting is easier said than done however, but its a very powerful tool in the right hands. The main thing about deflect is to not always stand still, but continue to strafe around, stop for a split second right as a bolt's trajectory is straight at you, tap manual block to deflect, and continue strafing. This is far more efficient than simply standing in one place and holding deflect, as holding deflect at lvl1-2 drains your FP, while at lvl 3 it just prevents you from regenerating FP, and a lot of the shots coming your way will simply miss anyway. Done correctly and far enough away, this can allow you to remain above 80% of your FP while still holding off 2-3 gunners at long/mid range indefinitely. If they continue the engagement, within a couple minutes they will either die to deflects or they will run out of ammo. This will hardly ever happen though, chances are they will finally start to slowly push to chase you away, since they know engaging 2-3 competent gunners head on in a tight corridor with no cover is usually suicide for the saberist. You can also stop for a split second to deflect while running towards the gunner. This causes more psychological damage than anything else, as it either usually forces the gunner to stop shooting for a little as he second guesses shooting at you, or causes them to panic run, giving you some valuable time to close the distance or opening a window to use a force power to disable them, and needless to say, if they are low on hp they might just end up killing themselves. Just be mindful with distance, the closer you are, the more FP damage you'll take doing this.

When trying to close in on a gunner shooting at you, the best way to go about it is to the strafe. This is best done in a mix of zig-zagging forward
, as well as facing the gunner while holding A or D as if you are trying to circle around him (this is strong because it allows you to close the distance quicker than simply strafing with WA/WD, in general makes you a little bit faster, and thus harder for the gunner to correct their aim/leading with the crosshair to hit you). The latter is best done once you are in close range. If you get a feel for the enemy's rate of fire you can time your strafes really well to evade most shots.

Once you finally get close to the gunner there's a few things you can do, especially depending on the style you are using, but in general the best way to go about it is to facehug the gunner so they can't run away and do an A/D swing while going in the opposite direction. A/D swings are the fastest for the most commonly used/easiest styles, and are the easiest to land. Most often than not that will land a killing blow, but its also good to keep one thing in mind - getting shot. If you get shot in the middle of your swing, if you aren't swingblocking, you will get knocked back and take damage. This is why you see a lot of saberists crouch, because not only does it prevent the gunner from ducking your swing, but it also lowers the knockback distance from getting shot without swingblocking. If you swingblock however, you will take no HP damage, will take FP damage, and your swing will also get interrupted, even if you got shot at the very end of your swing animation. This is something you have to be very mindful of at all times because if you are facing a 1v2 against a saberist and a gunner, going for a swing against the saberist can get you interrupted by the gunner shooting at you, and from there you can easily start getting hammered by the enemy saberist.

Now on to the final part - counterswinging. This works in the same away as it does in a duel against a saberist.
You can counterswing off of a blaster hit which makes your swing faster. This is incredibly useful, as getting a counterswing off a blaster hit can make your swing so fast that the gunner cant actively react to dodge it/interrupt your swing if you are close enough. The timing on pulling this off however is extremely difficult, as guns have different rates of fire, and sometimes gunners simply miss their shots which can lead to you getting "baited" into simply doing a normal slow neutral swing.

A few extra tips:
Flykick can be really useful to knock down gunners, just be mindful since it CAN get interrupted.

Hops/jumps can be useful for closing the distance against gunners, but it can also be very detrimental, as it makes your trajectory predictable and thus easier to shoot. Be mindful of this, but done properly in an unpredictable manner and in the right situation you can land some incredibly clutch kills.

Speedlunge is really good against gunners if you are a jedi.

If you know a gunner is low, you can simpy kill him with a saber throw.

Wallrunning can be useful to evade blaster fire and close the distance.

Special attacks like red DFA/purple stab/blue lunge/katas CAN get interrupted.

When very close to a gunner near facehug range, if the gunner stops shooting, chances are they might switch to melee and try to knock you down with a legsweep/flykick/side kick.
 
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SeV

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Others have already made sensible contributions, so I'll just tell a little story and give a bit of general advice.

One of my earliest MBII memories back in January 2007 was spectating VVerewolf on Cloud City and Korriban. He was by far the best open mode Jedi on the server. I even remember that he was using the Ki-Adi Mundi skin.

To this day, I still have a few vivid images of the gameplay in my mind but the big take-away I got from watching him play was how he kept using movement to not only dodge blaster bolts, but he would use obstacles on the maps to run rings around gunners. I remember him crouching and ADAD to survive against 3 ET/Soldiers and eventually kill them all.

I have an old clip of ThEra that will help illuminate what I mean about movement.

If you really want to learn, you need to closely observe how Masters play the game and mimic them; you also just need a lot of experience (game sense) to read the opponents.

For example, when you've fought plenty of bounty hunters, you'll know the signs that a poison dart is coming. You'll try to manually dodge it by making an erratic movement at the exact moment they try to PD you. You'll try to fight bounty hunters in a place where you can kite them round a pillar to wait for it to wear off. If they have Pistol 3, you'll know the firing rhythm and match your dodges to it, ducking under, to the side or even jumping over it to the rhythm of P3 fire. Lots of details like this that can only be learned by doing, by experience.

You basically need to play the game and learn all the classes. If you know the win condition for a BH, you know what to watch out for. Same goes for Mandalorians and other tricky classes. You have to know how they think and the best way to learn how gunners think is to become adequate at gunning.

Tips, tricks, tutorials and guides are all well and good, but they are no substitute for doing the work yourself by first observing masters, then mimicking them and finally, acquiring a comprehensive understanding of what each enemy class can do to you, and how you can try to win against them.

The main thing most open mode saberists get wrong is positioning when working together with gunners. They either tunnel vision and try to charge the enemy for a kill, or they just get in the way all the time. Get jump 3 and stay out of the firing line so your gunners can shoot at the enemy. Jump on boxes or lamps at the side of corridors to get out of the way while still being able to push stuff.

Do not take gunners cover, do not slow walk around in the middle of the battlefield.

The main corridor on old DOTF is a good example of where these basics come out to play. The noob will run straight down the centre and when he sees an enemy, he'll hold block and start to ADAD in the middle of the corridor, preventing his team from helping him. You fix this by sticking to the sides and making your movement predictable to teammates (no erratic strafing back and forth in front of them). If your friendlies can predict how you're going to move, you can work together properly. You can also frequently find a little ledge on the side to jump up on, or a box or a guard rail something like that, which puts you out of the firing line but still allows you to help your team.


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Jump to the time-stamps in bold to see the examples. For some reason, embedding with timestamps does not work properly.
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A few more examples: this one is 3 rounds on dotf. Watch how I move and work with the team.

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In this clip with the jedi and clone in the corridor, note how I keep moving so that the jedi can't flank me. I try to keep the jedi in-between me and the clone like a meatshield, so the clone cannot help the jedi win. Ideally here, the jedi wants to move to my flank and turn me away 90 degrees or at the very least get out of the way so the clone can shoot or blob, but I try not to let it happen by jumping and moving so he can't pin me down like that.

2:05

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Here is one of my favourites from back in the day. Look at how me and hex tear through their ranks like butter with the teamwork.
Notice how I never stand in the way of hex, which allows him to shoot freely. It's a really good example.

10:28

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Finally, for old time's sake, this clip.
Notice how I hack the window to isolate the jedi and mando in the hangar and how I try to different modes of movement afterwards. First is where I try to turn the jedi away from my gunner so he can shoot him in the back, second is how I try to move back to defend my gunner third is how I move and push the enemy gunner to control the battlefield and isolate engagements as much as possible to avoid being overwhelmed (so the enemy can't use their numbers advantage properly. You use the same principle in 1vX lightsaber duels).

4:45

 
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I highly recommend you one play the game alot, like Sev said above playing is the best way to learn.

At times open can feel alot like rock paper scissors, in terms of your ability to win, granted this is not as relevant at the highest level where you can win on any class (unless u play vs jedi and sith, pls fix shits broken)
Secondly, there are alot of vods out there of people playing "pugs" pick up games, where the gameplay is a bit more coordinated, along with generally being decent players playing in them. If that isn't your cup of tea I do highly recommend recording your own gameplay and watching it back to review mistakes, things that worked ETC.
If you wanna be good at playing gunner I would say go play commander/Elite trooper in open with dodge and e11, and get used to how the game works, same for sith/jedi x gunner gameplay. Weaving in primary shots on e11 and be very good vs jedi and sith, along with having first person bound to a easy to reach key on your mouse or keyboard. It becomes alot easier to hit body shots in CQC if you go first person.
For the VODs I know both Jadon and Dwarf upload VODs to youtube, so imma link their channels below.


 
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Gunner V Saber is ultimately a contest of intimidation.

For gunners that means you are landing every shot and daring a jedi/sith to sprint at you. If you can land every shot you will emit an aura of discouragement that debuffs (most) saberist and causes them to reconsider life and doubt themselves giving you time to confirm their doubts by gunning them down.

For saberists this means cutting down gunners in rapid succession. When you murder (its important that the first kill is as violent or stylish as possible) your first gunner their fresh corspe will emit a fear debuff (completely immobileszes weaker gunners and only causes a breif pause in veterans) to any gunners that were near the victim. This fear debuff can be used to snap from victim to victim resetting the fear debuff upon each kill.

I have video evidence of both of these methods although I have yet to form a proper guide. Movement and capitalization on opportunities are key. You also need to be significantly better than other players for this to work.
 
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