Remove Dodge

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I used to not mind dodge but it's literally a crutch at this point. You could be the worst player in mb2 and still kill some try hard veteran solely because of dodge. It becomes even more ridiculous when two try hards are using dodge and both character models are doing some autistic animation, and after dodge expires they both go back to cover and rinse and repeat until one of them fucks up by not pressing the button or going to cover right way.

If I was in charge of balancing, I would simply make dodge work only for the proj rifle and disruptor. It would both reduce the amount of dodge duels, and it would make it valuable for soldier classes so they can cross open areas without losing all or most of their health.
 

Dorito

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Yeah, wth Devs. You guys took it out of the game years ago to rework it only to say 'Fuck it' and bring it back more OP than ever??

And the last few patches have only made it more OP because why??
 

Crusader

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It's not the devs fault.

They didn't say 'fuck it'.

We made suggestions, they followed through. We didn't test it adequately in beta and that is why it is in the state it is now.

The intention was to weaken it at close range and strengthen it at long range so that classes with dodge could close distance safely against snipers yet not dominate at CQC. I.e, you can dodge more shots at range but not in close proximity. Conceptually, this was better than the previous rendition of dodge.

Dodge is strong now, yes. It will probably be adjusted in the future.

What is considered 'close range' (the least effective range) needs to be lengthened and the amount of shots dodged toned down at further distances.
 

Dorito

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It's not the devs fault.

They didn't say 'fuck it'.

We made suggestions, they followed through. We didn't test it adequately in beta and that is why it is in the state it is now.

The intention was to weaken it at close range and strengthen it at long range so that classes with dodge could close distance safely against snipers yet not dominate at CQC. I.e, you can dodge more shots at range but not in close proximity. Conceptually, this was better than the previous rendition of dodge.

Dodge is strong now, yes. It will probably be adjusted in the future.

What is considered 'close range' (the least effective range) needs to be lengthened and the amount of shots dodged toned down at further distances.
Dodge doesn't seem any different from long range than from short range lmao. Totally botched mechanic imo.

Using it honestly feels criminal.

I kind of wish there was more Beta Testers and more availability because I think it's important to test the game under 'load', so to speak. If a fullish server of people are just playing the game normally (obviously, while using whatever needs to be tested), it will be wayyy easier to find discrepancies. Put the mechanics to the test with 'real world' experience.

Or idk, maybe before every major build do a week of a public beta or something.

Seems like a lot of stuff comes out and is broken on arrival or not executed the way it was envisioned.
 
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I think part of the issue with dodge in almost all of its implementations is that it's not fun to fight against. There was a time (now long ago) when it felt like it had some counter-play, but now it feels more like an unlimited regenerating health bar that's difficult and costly to punish.

It's particularly egregious when fighting against a good player using a reinforcement class with a dominant gun like the a280, where the solution is to close range against a powerful weapon that's effective at short-range, and it's this combo especially I find to be problematic. The guys who use this build DO tend to be very good players, but I also feel they have survivability and sustainability out-of-proportion to the risks they have to take (basically zero).

I don't mind heroes having a strong dodge because they're a single-life class. I do like the idea of either taking it out entirely or limiting it to disruptor or projectile rifle shots.

Edit: I do remember the counterpoint that the removal of dodge would simply lead to a 25hp buff to the classes who lose it from their ability sheet. I think that's preferable to a perpetually-replenishing 25hp cushion, even if it is boring mechanically.
 
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Remove it and you're just gonna crank up the corner camping with charge shots, burst weapons, snipers, firepower 3 sbd, and so on straight to 11.
The ability needs a heavy nerf/rework/revert to old functionality. Removing it will just bring to the forefront a problem that led to it becoming relevant.

Make no mistake, dodge currently is fucking stupid and should be one of the absolute highest priorities when it comes to balance, but removing it is just going to greatly increase an entirely different issue.

Possible solutions:
A) All headshots work on dodge rather than just ruptor/proj.
B) As is, but remove the ability to dodge regular fire, but continue to dodge all snipers, charge shots, and burst weapons. I.e. some guy trying to run up a corridor can get yeeted by an e-11 despite dodge.
C) Make dodge have a minimum distance i.e. if the dodge user is too close to the player shooting at them, dodge simply won't work at all.

The above are just some ideas. There are other ways to deal with it, and I would say regardless of what is done, the points to purchase it & the drain of dodge points warrant further review as well.
 
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It's not the devs fault.

They didn't say 'fuck it'.

We made suggestions, they followed through. We didn't test it adequately in beta and that is why it is in the state it is now.

The intention was to weaken it at close range and strengthen it at long range so that classes with dodge could close distance safely against snipers yet not dominate at CQC. I.e, you can dodge more shots at range but not in close proximity. Conceptually, this was better than the previous rendition of dodge.

Dodge is strong now, yes. It will probably be adjusted in the future.

What is considered 'close range' (the least effective range) needs to be lengthened and the amount of shots dodged toned down at further distances.
Shitty suggestions considering this games gameplay-state.
 

Fang

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quick resolution for now

make it headshot for all weapons
increase cqc timer drain more to the point where facehugging it doesn't even work.
leave long distance alone imo (since dodge is intended to push up / contest snipers)
 
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Gargos

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I really like that with dodge you can run as a gunner through stupid choke points such as dotf main. As stated the problem is that dodge works so well even at face hug level. I dont remember how it works atm but IMO just make it so the closer you are to the enemy —> more dodge points get depleted. Just takes some tinkering to find the sweetspot for the range. Also could make high damage weapons eat more dodge points if that is not the case already.
 

Fluffy |>

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Currently it is based on distance but the drains do not increase nearly enough when distance is low
 
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it's a good mechanic. if you wanna remove it, remove all sniper rifles because that shit is 100x less fun to play against. ET and Heroes would also need a replacement mechanic.
 

Dorito

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I think part of the issue with dodge in almost all of its implementations is that it's not fun to fight against. There was a time (now long ago) when it felt like it had some counter-play, but now it feels more like an unlimited regenerating health bar that's difficult and costly to punish.

It's particularly egregious when fighting against a good player using a reinforcement class with a dominant gun like the a280, where the solution is to close range against a powerful weapon that's effective at short-range, and it's this combo especially I find to be problematic. The guys who use this build DO tend to be very good players, but I also feel they have survivability and sustainability out-of-proportion to the risks they have to take (basically zero).

I don't mind heroes having a strong dodge because they're a single-life class. I do like the idea of either taking it out entirely or limiting it to disruptor or projectile rifle shots.

Edit: I do remember the counterpoint that the removal of dodge would simply lead to a 25hp buff to the classes who lose it from their ability sheet. I think that's preferable to a perpetually-replenishing 25hp cushion, even if it is boring mechanically.
Yes! Victor Halcyon telling it how it is!
 

KarusBadders

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Remove it and you're just gonna crank up the corner camping with charge shots, burst weapons, snipers, firepower 3 sbd, and so on straight to 11.
The ability needs a heavy nerf/rework/revert to old functionality. Removing it will just bring to the forefront a problem that led to it becoming relevant.

Make no mistake, dodge currently is fucking stupid and should be one of the absolute highest priorities when it comes to balance, but removing it is just going to greatly increase an entirely different issue.

Possible solutions:
A) All headshots work on dodge rather than just ruptor/proj.
B) As is, but remove the ability to dodge regular fire, but continue to dodge all snipers, charge shots, and burst weapons. I.e. some guy trying to run up a corridor can get yeeted by an e-11 despite dodge.
C) Make dodge have a minimum distance i.e. if the dodge user is too close to the player shooting at them, dodge simply won't work at all.

The above are just some ideas. There are other ways to deal with it, and I would say regardless of what is done, the points to purchase it & the drain of dodge points warrant further review as well.
I like the first suggestion you gave the most. But I'm not an Open player so let me stfu and slide out of here
 
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