Possible Change for Dash.

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I had this wild idea the other day about dash. What if to make it more balanced versus gunners you remove its ability to dodge bullets with dash level 2. This would mean that heroes could still be shot or held down by suppressing fire. I think this would make dash still a feasible skill. It still allows the hero to quickly move out and make a snipe in main, but implements a level of timing that this would have to occur. If you wanted to compensate dash with something for this change you could reduce the cost for each dash allowing them to dash more often.
 

Supa

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Or, it could have a cooldown and more resource cost.
 

GoodOl'Ben

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I haven't really felt any issue with Dash. A graphical indicator of dodges with out restricting movement for Dash 2 could be nice so it's easier to know when you're being dodged. For that I'd have the old dodge animations played, but allow them to be cut short if the player fires. I think it would go a long way of allowing players to understand the battle a little better.
 

Cat Lady

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To be honest, dash is my least favorite part about MBII. It looks *extremely* ugly (it reminds me of bug where model starts to move as on ice), and overall doesn't seem like belonging to SW, Hero class, or Movie Battles - lets face it, it is direct rip-off from 2D metroidania-style platformers.

As of in-game balance I agree that it seems perfectly balanced right now. It's jsut that eyes hurt by even looking at it in-game.

/Cat Lady
 

GoodOl'Ben

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To be honest, dash is my least favorite part about MBII. It looks *extremely* ugly (it reminds me of bug where model starts to move as on ice), and overall doesn't seem like belonging to SW, Hero class, or Movie Battles - lets face it, it is direct rip-off from 2D metroidania-style platformers.

As of in-game balance I agree that it seems perfectly balanced right now. It's jsut that eyes hurt by even looking at it in-game.

/Cat Lady

The movement could use some momentum. It looks stupid due to the fact that it reaches terminal velocity instantly. The velocity should gradually increase. Albeit at a very swift rate.
 

Cat Lady

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Yes, that could help - or at least make it more like *very* fast dodging (manual), not some quantum-translocation like it is now.
 

Supa

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Why should a self-displacement ability not be on some sort of a cooldown? Can you imagine ARC being able to use dive until they have no more stamina? That's pretty much hero and dash in a nutshell. It reminds me of when dodge was like playing The Matrix Simulator mini-game in MB2.

There is no smart use of dash. Just keep spamming it.
 
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because the ability itself isn't that strong in fights since your path is easy to predict. if you use it badly you'll become a lot easier to hit. seeing as hero already has the highest movement speed using something for a slight boost of velocity while sacrificing the ability to change direction isn't nearly as strong as you make it out to be :)

anyway these theoretical arguments are pointless when you can just look at how it's been working so far in the actual game. and you don't see situations in which bad players beat good players just because they use dash, which after all is the ultimate criterium by which you should judge if an ability is too powerful for the skill required to use it to its full potential. there are many other abilities (fury, mind trick, grip, mando rocket, secondary nades) that, similarly to dash, require little to no skill, but are extremely powerful and can be the basis of viable builds. those abilities do enable players who arent as good at the game to beat those who are just because they chose a build where the maximum effectiveness is achieved by clicking your main ability :) i think it would be good to focus on these first before nerfing a class that is already below average
 

Supa

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anyway these theoretical arguments are pointless when you can just look at how it's been working so far in the actual game. and you don't see situations in which bad players beat good players just because they use dash, which after all is the ultimate criterium by which you should judge if an ability is too powerful for the skill required to use it to its full potential. there are many other abilities (fury, mind trick, grip, mando rocket, secondary nades) that, similarly to dash, require little to no skill, but are extremely powerful and can be the basis of viable builds. those abilities do enable players who arent as good at the game to beat those who are just because they chose a build where the maximum effectiveness is achieved by clicking your main ability :) i think it would be good to focus on these first before nerfing a class that is already below average
Gonna pick this apart for a moment.

1. When you implement or balance an ability, you never balance it around good player versus bad player. You balance it around the hypothetical average player skill currently present in the game.
2a. Fury and mind trick I agree are just as strong and require about as much skill as dash at the moment, and they could be toned down a little bit.
2b. Grip, with it's long as hell time to activate can't really be bunched up with fury and mind trick. Mind trick makes you invisible to all but SBD with advanced sensors (who buys that?) and Sith. Fury lets you mindlessly run at enemies. You at least have to think about where you are when you use grip, 1v1 or otherwise.
2c. Mando rockets and frag grenades are a different discussion entirely. The current use of mando rockets and secondary grenades fall in with the "vengeance over smart gameplay" menatlity a lot of players seem to have. People would rather use their rocket or grenade to kill someone they don't like than save it to make a more tactical play on the map later on to get the win.
3. Dash in the hands of an inexperienced player can be just as good as the above mentioned abilities. The benefit is a flat learning curve, it doesn't take much time to learn how to use effectively, because similarly to rockets and grenades it's a click-instant activate displacement, just on yourself instead of on enemies. Combine that with how strong E-11 and Pistol 3 are and you get a stupidly annoying class with an instant blink.
4. A class that is picked as often as hero for it's ease of use can't really be considered underused. At this point in time, there are very few classes that are underused, but hero, Jedi, Sith are up there in top picks.

Now everyone has an opinion, and that's mine. I use dash all the time and I enjoy testing it's limits, but if you play it safe you're almost guaranteed a victory in most 1v1's.
 
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Gonna pick this apart for a moment.

1. When you implement or balance an ability, you never balance it around good player versus bad player. You balance it around the hypothetical average player skill currently present in the game.
2a. Fury and mind trick I agree are just as strong and require about as much skill as dash at the moment, and they could be toned down a little bit.
2b. Grip, with it's long as hell time to activate can't really be bunched up with fury and mind trick. Mind trick makes you invisible to all but SBD with advanced sensors (who buys that?) and Sith. Fury lets you mindlessly run at enemies. You at least have to think about where you are when you use grip, 1v1 or otherwise.
2c. Mando rockets and frag grenades are a different discussion entirely. The current use of mando rockets and secondary grenades fall in with the "vengeance over smart gameplay" menatlity a lot of players seem to have. People would rather use their rocket or grenade to kill someone they don't like than save it to make a more tactical play on the map later on to get the win.
3. Dash in the hands of an inexperienced player can be just as good as the above mentioned abilities. The benefit is a flat learning curve, it doesn't take much time to learn how to use effectively, because similarly to rockets and grenades it's a click-instant activate displacement, just on yourself instead of on enemies. Combine that with how strong E-11 and Pistol 3 are and you get a stupidly annoying class with an instant blink.
4. A class that is picked as often as hero for it's ease of use can't really be considered underused. At this point in time, there are very few classes that are underused, but hero, Jedi, Sith are up there in top picks.

Now everyone has an opinion, and that's mine. I use dash all the time and I enjoy testing it's limits, but if you play it safe you're almost guaranteed a victory in most 1v1's.

1. that's not my point. what i'm saying is it would be op if it was so strong that bad players could use it as a crutch. that's exactly in line with what you're saying about having abilities that don't decide a fight between average players simply because one of them has it and the other doesn't. which is the case with all your points in 2abc, all these perks can be used on their own to win a fight in a way that's impossible to counter by the other player regardless of his skill level.
3. no it cannot. dash has been in the game for a long time and i personally have never had issues dealing with it, nor has anyone i've talked to. it doesn't stop your from aiming at the enemy, it's a simple tradeoff - you gain velocity for the drawback of not being able to turn, which more often than not will be fatal against a player with good aim :)
4. maybe it's different on the american side of things (i know it is, having visited your servers a few times in the past), but hero is one of the weakest classes in the current meta over here, better only than jedi/sith (support classes, kinda makes sense they'd be worse), arc and arguably mando.
 
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4. maybe it's different on the american side of things (i know it is, having visited your servers a few times in the past), but hero is one of the weakest classes in the current meta over here, better only than jedi/sith (support classes, kinda makes sense they'd be worse), arc and arguably mando.
Its not working like that. The classes are the same on both US and EU side. If the EU players cant use the Hero class, its not the class' fault. Anyway its a common problem here since I play the game that it was always easier to blame the classes (mostly Jedi/Sith) and change stuffs in the mod, instead of learn how to use said class/ability/weapon properly. With this I dont say that you cant use Hero class properly, I say lets dont blame the class itself, because most of the EU community is bad with it.
 
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Its not working like that. The classes are the same on both US and EU side. If the EU players cant use the Hero class, its not the class' fault. Anyway its a common problem here since I play the game that it was always easier to blame the classes (mostly Jedi/Sith) and change stuffs in the mod, instead of learn how to use said class/ability/weapon properly. With this I dont say that you cant use Hero class properly, I say lets dont blame the class itself, because most of the EU community is bad with it.

lol

i'd say it's quite the opposite
 
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I have a crazy idea for dash too. Add a third level at an extensively high point cost and give it dash1.0 mechanics on said 3rd level.
 
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