Mandolorian needs a nerf. Here's why

Do you think Mando needs a nerf?


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Tylenol

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TL;DR?
Mandos are in an odd place balance wise and are a tad too versatile. If certain aspects of the class forced players to play only specific roles, instead of all of them, I believe it'd would be easier to balance them in the future and still make them a fun class.


Every single class in MB2 has a general purpose with class configs options that allow different branching play styles. Gunners and Jedi are the basic core of any good team. They're made in such a way that they fill in the other classes weaknesses and play off each others strengths. Jedi are limited by their melee saber range, however, that is resolved with gunners having varied ranged attacks. But, they are quite open to other different attacks (sabers, sniper fire, etc) and while they have their own means of dealing with it (dodge, sprint, heal) , nothing is better than a friendly Jedi to block shots for them. I could bring in more points but you get the idea.

The main structure of gunners then separates in to different roles they need to partake in. Basic soldiers fill in as disposable infantry, that can support their team with blaster fire and to some degree grenades, while commanders or elite troopers basically stand behind soldiers to provide cover fire, rally them quickly to the battle lines and provide additional support with their own unique grenades. Heros can play as advanced elite soldiers, however their class is more built to be snipers with dodge and heal to take out oncoming soldiers from a far. Clone troopers and ARC troopers are basically parallels of Soldiers and Commanders but are built in with counters to Dekas and SBDs. Now among all this, the class that stands outs / counters the most of them all is Mandalorian.

Mandos are a unique class, mostly due to the fact that they can replace half of the gunners entirely. With EE-3 Blaster Rifle LVL3, Mandos can easily switch between being using a sniper rifle or a basic blaster similar to an E-11, with the click of a button. That already fills in 2/3 different classes, and that's not mentioning the bonuses that Mandos gets.

The Jetpack offers such high mobility, that no other class can compare to it. Arc troopers might have Dex 3 but compared to the heights Mandos can reach, it's laughable.

While Rocket has previously received a nerf in the time it takes to launch (which I appreciate), it's still fairly easy to just launch one in the middle of a fire fight. With ARC troopers, they're required to load a rocket into the launcher and carry it with the until required, keeping them at a disadvantage since they're not ready for an unexpected close ranged fire fight, while Mandos can fire when they can with little to no consequence.

(I will point that that Flamethrower is just a great add on that forces opponents to make reflex decisions either retreat or rush, I don't have too many gripes with it)

Overall, I'm not unhappy that Mandolorians have a couple tricks up their sleeves, it's just that I believe that they one too many of these tricks. What I'd recommend is:

  • Either make Jetpack a separate purchasable upgrade, combine it with flame thrower and simply have fuel be upgraded with each level or just raise the price of fuel/lower the max amount of fuel you can have.
  • Make EE-3s separate from sniper rifles, meaning more points have to be spent for separate weapons.
  • Make the launch time of Rockets a bit longer (again :p)

I want to just say that all that I wrote hear is because I really do enjoy this mod alot. As much as the community can be toxic at times, it really offers a lot more that any other game could. I'm only writing this because I want this mod to improve and be more fun, not too ruin it for everyone. I hope I haven't annoyed too many of you :).

Thanks for reading and if you want, maybe leave a comment on what you think and drop a vote in the poll.
 
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Don't forget the part where mandos are immune to force push and pull when they reach a good velocity with the jetpack.
 

Tylenol

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Don't forget the part where mandos are immune to force push and pull when they reach a good velocity with the jetpack.
I believe that's not really an issue if it's a Mandolorian that's just constantly running away from fights or just time wasting, and even then that doesn't happen often
 

Lessen

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I think your argument is loaded with apples-to-oranges comparisons that sap all the weight out of any accusation you might be making.

Also I think mando is fine, although I also kinda suck with EE-3 sniper. For the most part, I'd say Mando's balanced by not really being superior to any other class at any other role, it's a "jack of all trades" who's designed to be able to "cope with" but not quite "excel at" any given situation.
 

Cat

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The fact how ARC's PLS launcher requires to be loaded manually beforehand and limits mobility definetely is a reason to nerf mandalorian's rocket, as they serve the same purpose and are similar in all the other characteristics, as well as are the classes. Same goes for dex3 and jetpack, as well as EE-3-3 compared to E-11+proj.
Not really.
 

Onysfx

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I don't agree with this. I think mando is pretty balanced already. Don't forget that they don't have a side roll getup for being a single life class, so if they get knocked down by a jedi they're done. Yes they can fly away, but they are vulnerable while jumping. Also, the ee3 sniper mode does 100 base damage instead of 150, and consumes a ton of ammo.
 

KaniganTheMando

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mandalorians are best class. pls no nerf, only buff

jetpack mobility:
- good for escaping jedi. rushing to cover or objective or wherever you are needed most on map, or randomizing vertical position to shoot out of corners or the rare higher-up cover (dotf lamppost at main)
- not very controlled, easy to shoot at due to drift and time it takes to get momentum going (compared to stam-toggled speed of arc with choice to strafe a or d, or gymnastics with optional cancels)
- at close range, mandalorians are slow, easier to shoot at their ad strafe, but can throw in a jetpack-up, immediate-cancel, and shoot on the way down till forced to do the sometimes inevitable ad strafe fight. It is like arc jumps to throw opponent gunner off, but still very predictable to shoot at because gravity is predictable, is also why hopping sith are easier to blob than random zigzaggers as clone.
- height is not most important aspect of mobility (+ depends on map), flight momentum is predictable
- good for dividing enemy team and killing them in parts (bait jedi to fight on deathstar ship -> kill enemy gunners after or before they reach control room, bait jedi to follow you up high platforms to drain their fp and finish them off) etc.

counters to rocket:
- sold throw nades to cancel, also has 3 lives -> mando has 1 rocket and 1 life
- elite sold throw nades to cancel, high-dmg with a280 on knockdown, also has 2 lives -> mando has 1 rocket and 1 life
- clone has blobs (1 to knock out of sky, one to stun mando from acting out), also has 2 lives -> mando has 1 rocket and 1 life
- arc lunge/gymnastics, armor 3, or attempt to snipe mando
- hero dash, snipe mando head, p3 knocks mando back
- if multi-life class, and mando intent on suicide-bombing -> let him? (better you than your team's mvp)
- shoot the rocket
- force push
- utilize jump roll to cover

counters to ee3:
- stay out of open areas with little cover, use cover, utilize jump roll to cover
- use concs or sonics to shut down sniper + ion blobs, frags, arc ammo-drain nades
- count for shots, hear 2 -> rush mando or rush to cover
- suppressive fire on sniper position
- bait him to waste his 2 snipes with your dodge/fast movement speed/gymnastics, snipe the mando yourself (proj > ee3 at long range, westar m5 sniper can knockback to screw up mando aim)
- dodge level 2 + a280 level 3 (may be sacrifice armor, and third level of a280 for a nade)
- shoot from close enough that sniping is way too risky but far enough away that they're forced to fire in bursts instead of spraying (ee3 loses accuracy after 3 shots, so firing bursts common tactic when not facehugging)

why mando needs to be buffed/fixed imo:
-certain kinds of jump swings seem impossible to dodge (cause of mando's limited ground-mobility) even if you predict the swing beforehand, but I hear knockback is gonna be a thing so jump-swings in general might be a non issue if your aim is good
- wristlaser's aim makes no sense and needs fix pls, also doesnt seem to do enough fp drain to justify using it
- the jetpack kick makes no sense and works like a regular melee standing kick for some reason, buff amount of force/distance/? it applies to be at least the same as the jumping-kick
- more of a suggestion, but make dual-westars unpullable or at least only let one to be pulled at a time! ARCs with dext3 already have this functionality, and m'lore https://2.bp.blogspot.com/x6l9L1tT6V8hLtUCwb4D0b2P-l1gdfFjgfWHLIuhNUCHm5CzMLj4pd4rdvYG84EItQRyDUMJad2j=s1600
 
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Lessen

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wristlaser's aim makes no sense and needs fix pls
yes. Wrist laser seems to have some kinda super janky dynamic aim logic of trying to draw a line from your left wrist to the crosshair, wherever your left wrist happens to be. It's a good example of why dynamic aim logic (like having dual pistols converge) is a bad idea, it's just got layers and layers of strange "quirky" behavior. I think really as charming as the idea of the shot actually firing from your wrist is, that should be thrown out and aim-logic-wise it should fire exactly like a mirrored P3. P3 fires from above your right shoulder and goes in a straight, predictable line. WL should fire from above your left shoulder and go in a straight, predictable line.

(this would mean it wouldn't go to where the crosshair points.. it would reliably land down and to the left of the crosshair, but I'm fine with that, it's preferable to the current state of things.)

(and keep the part where you can fire WL mid-kick. If WL aim was stabilized as described above, a melee mando with great aim could throw out kicks and then cover their ass with WL. You can sorta do that now except WL aim is so janky that it's ridiculous trying to hit with it at close range. If WL was reliable, melee mando would be an almost solid Jedi counter. Flame them at mid range and when they rush in use kicks and WL together to fight them. MMAndo)

agree with the other mando commentary as well
 
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KaniganTheMando

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The EE3 sniper needs definitely a nerf, maybe like you mentioned make it more expensive.
Nerf EE3 sniper and Mando is balanced.
Not sure if this is specifically what people consider to be the problem of the EE3, but EE3 can seem ridiculously strong at sniping enemy gunners from corner chokepoints (not sure of the proper term, pop sniping?) especially on maps like Deathstar or Cloud City, but you're still not likely to oneshot unless you land a perfect headshot on anything but a soldier or the elite trooper.

It often takes 2-3 shots to kill (depending on class, dodge & armor level), as good gunners rarely stay out in the open long enough for you to intentionally aim for the head and are careful not to rush past corners. Heros are very quick and hard to shoot, Clones have 2 lives and are capable of blobbing from corners similar to EE3 pop sniping, ARCs are thicc and quick with a ROF that crushes the EE3 at close-range, Elite Troopers can dodge, alt-frag, and burst-fire their A280 at mandalorians attempting to pop-snipe. Soldiers have the typical toss a conc, blast em, and repeat x3.

But, yeah, I think, if the window of weakness you have when you snipe is TOO short, and that's something that needs to be nerfed, then we need to consider the clone's ability to pop-blob across corners or the soldier classes' alt-frags (or dodge or heal or dash or proj+altfrag). If EE3 is nerfed, I feel like the advantage might shift more clearly over too quickly, especially considering the already-existing effectiveness of clone-rifle and a280 for suppressing snipers from popping out of cover. When I play mandalorian, I rarely risk (unless its an area with a high ceiling) pop-sniping if I see CR suppressive fire, I'd rather stand back and wait for the enemy gunners to get in my reticle, shoot, then rush to cover (to avoid blob and attempt second snipe) or just spray to finish the clone off, or just die cause I missed and the clone ran after me with stam 2 and blobbed me.
 
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Tylenol

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The pool you made is incredibly cringe

Nerf EE3 sniper and Mando is balanced.
Quite so

I don't agree with this. I think mando is pretty balanced already. Don't forget that they don't have a side roll getup for being a single life class, so if they get knocked down by a jedi they're done. Yes they can fly away, but they are vulnerable while jumping. Also, the ee3 sniper mode does 100 base damage instead of 150, and consumes a ton of ammo.
Except Mandos can constantly back away from Jedi due to their Jetpacks, and the push window is quite short meaning only 5up3r l337 jedi can really get it in time.
hell, if they get sec-fragged by a 3 life sold they're gonna take a big ol' bundle of damage.

#sec #frag #is #dumb #tho
Mandos can outmaneuver soldiers with ease but I believe the same applies.

I think your argument is loaded with apples-to-oranges comparisons that sap all the weight out of any accusation you might be making.
I only bring up the comparisons because a lot of what other classes do, mando just does better.

The EE3 sniper needs definitely a nerf, maybe like you mentioned make it more expensive.
I feel like making sniper mode separate from the EE3 would be better since it would force players to choose from one of them, but there's probably some balance issue in that statement.
 

RC-Delta

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Tbh, I think mando is fine as well, like said before, jack of all trades, not king of em.
Btw, if we really have to nerf, I don't want dmg to be nered, make it so that it get in accurate the more you fire, and have a cooldown before it becomes fully accurate again. Similar to the long reload time of the proj rifle.
 

----Kas----

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If EE-3 sniper needs anything, then it is a buff. I am tired of clones and heros surviving headshots.
There were plenty of threads like this. Average mando is pretty easy to kill tbh.
 

KaniganTheMando

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If EE-3 sniper needs anything, then it is a buff. I am tired of clones and heros surviving headshots.
There were plenty of threads like this. Average mando is pretty easy to kill tbh.
id rather westars/wristlaser were buffed to be more consistent, so they were a legitimate alternative to ee3 and mando builds were more versatile.

with wristlaser you could literally be facehugging someone, and still miss, its stupid
 

Onysfx

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Ya wrist lasor isn't that great. I'm not sure how much fp damage it currently does, but it should do at least 25. While that seems like a lot, jedi regen FP so it isn't really, especially since you have to be very accurate for it to be effective.
 

MaceMadunusus

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I'm not sure how much fp damage it currently does, but it should do at least 25.
Wrist Laser
Outside IDR Running: 22 FP
Inside IDR Running: 33FP
Outside IDR Blocking: 20 FP
Inside IDR Blocking: 26 FP
 
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