Is Soldier Spam Underused?

[Lessen]

Soldiers are a class that is clearly designed as cannon fodder, as the rank-and-file, as the meat of the team. I mean, it's called "Soldier" for crying out loud. Like "average combatant." Every other class is some kind of specialist snowflake.

Big public servers have a tendency to degrade into some mix of jedi spam and sniper spam. Jedi and Sniper are both instagib classes. Soldier is a class that can get instagibbed twice and remain in play! Is soldier spam (i.e. fielding an army that actually consists of soldiers rather than specialists) the answer to all of life's problems?????

Not if the average player has no willingness to even try to coordinate, ha ha.

but seriously, isn't a soldier-centric meta (especially one with good usage of rally commanders so that dying doesn't mean leaving the fight) superior to the meta we have now? It might never happen, because soldier just isn't a glamorous class. Does soldier need better PR?

Spoiler: Rogue One spoilers lol

Rogue One is pretty good PR for soldiers. Fight for every modicum of success or the slightest advantage! Take every chance! Inevitably die for the cause! Ooh-rah.

edit: i suppose in theory, a soldier-centric meta would mostly relegate the specialist classes to fighting over the secondary objective, since specialists have more individual punch, so you can invest just a small group of them in the secondary objective with a good chance of success. Or something like that.

they'd also be support for the main army. Namely snipers picking off commanders and force users blocking grenades. Wookiees, SBDs, and walky Dekas acting as temporary bursts of terror to break an enemy line. Faster classes like saberists, gunner Heroes/BH, and clones/ARCs hanging out on the edges of the front line ready to pursue the enemy if their lines break. (Since post-nerf soldiers are kind of a slow-moving blob of doom at this point.)

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I have been trying to get people to play soldier and ET/CMDR when I was active because firefights in MB2 is pretty fun.
And that a firing line of people with guns usually trumps the saber spam but the problem has always been you just cannot organize people in a pub setting.
You can maybe get like 4 people to listen to you tops at max.

People just want to play as fucking jedi or sith dude and its honestly depressing. Some of the best Starwars content in the EU has nothing to do with ancient religions and glow sticks. RG1 and Ep4 showcased that the best with the fucking Tantive 5 hallway scene.

Those one in ten instances where people initiate clone spam or storm spam is pretty vivid in my mind. That was always fun to fight against or be apart of. Because I would make a shitty build on purpose as an ARC and pretend to be an officer. Pistol 2 and max points in dex and stam. Max in ammo and armor. I can't remember it exactly. But I would pick phase 1 arc model. Or play as a battle droid soldier on evil team. With a viable in mind.

 

[Lessen]

Maybe that could be a secondary goal of my currently-nonexistent anti-toxic clan: to promote lots of teamwork and helping teammates and stuff, largely through Soldier spam.

I was thinking about what the "optimal army builds" are for any given number of well-coordinated players. Like for 1 player, I would say that Jedi/Sith with the faction-specific force powers is clearly the strongest "army." For 2 players, maybe Jedi+Hero / Sith+BH, configured as snipers. For 3 players, Jedi+Hero+Wook / Sith+BH+SBD? Maybe? And then at 4 players is when I start to feel like you can switch gears and do Saberist+Rallymander+2Soldiers. Three or more gunners is army material. (edit: "army material" as in, it's where you can start to really rely on mass firepower to solve most problems. Then, once your army is big enough, you start to tack on specialists like snipers or tanks or flanker spec-ops again.)

the jedi/sith is an absolute required constant, though, because Push protects your gunners from nades and punishes enemy gunners for using run to dodge shots.

(of course, truly optimal army build is built specifically to counter the other team's build. I'm just thinking in general. And I might be totally off-base since I don't have a ton of experience commanding squads in different builds. I mean, nobody does. Except maybe competitive teams.)

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

God if only battlefront 3 wasn't such a fucking cash grab and owned by EA. This niche desire of mine would be fulfilled.

 

[Noob]

Because I would make a shitty build on purpose as an ARC and pretend to be an officer.

Lol I do this with Imperial Officer. Pistol 2, 2 nades, rally, and ammo/armor

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Lol I do this with Imperial Officer. Pistol 2, 2 nades, rally, and ammo/armor

And not a single soldier to spawn on you....

 

[Lessen]

If you're back and you're in Illinois (as in USA as in same general ping region), and you like strategic Soldier spam with loyalty to commanders, you could help me build a group that makes these kinds of gunfests happen (by stacking teams, and figuring out what kind of mind games work best to convince a team to spam Soldier).

(mostly inactive r/n due to college stuff though)

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

If you're back and you're in Illinois (as in USA as in same general ping region), and you like strategic Soldier spam with loyalty to commanders, you could help me build a group that makes these kinds of gunfests happen (by stacking teams, and figuring out what kind of mind games work best to convince a team to spam Soldier).

(mostly inactive r/n due to college stuff though)

I dunno about that.

Spoiler

After recovering from my sociopath lifestyle, graduating college to find out I cant get a job that I went to college for because I don't have money to retake certification exams nor bi-lingual, and then falling into a deep depression and forced to get a job in retail. I am sort of in this stump with complex competitive games where as before I loved the shit out of them. I am turning 25 next month and it feels like my soul was sucked out of me and im just so tired now.

I might get a twinge to play a game and every now and then but I doubt I will be as good as I used to be, or as vocal about shit like I used to be. My passion is gone right now. So I don't think I would be as much help to you. You do your thing man and hope for the best.

 

[Lessen]

huh. well, I wish you the best.

 

[cgj26]

huh. well, I wish you the best.

I used to Soldier Like You, Until I got CC2 removed to the knee

 

[Rosh+]

You can maybe get like 4 people to listen to you tops at max.

Heh, that's what you think.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Heh, that's what you think.

I congratulate you that you can organize a team of randoms and not clan affiliated.

 

[Rosh+]

I congratulate you that you can organize a team of randoms and not clan affiliated.

ty fam

(lol gotta maek a vidyuh nao)

 

[Lessen]

Rosh, do you just mean armies of Roshes? Then again, i guess meme magic is probably the most efficient way to get a team working together

 

[Rosh+]

Rosh, do you just mean armies of Roshes? Then again, i guess meme magic is probably the most efficient way to get a team working together

Nah, managed to get randoms including Ginkobum, and a whole bunch of other people on Imps to spam Cultists on Pande, then hide in throne all match, waiting for the Jedi to break in so we could surprise em'. Eventually switched to spamming Soldiers, mostly stormtroopers. I then got them to teamstack Rebs, and go all clones with CR3. The total amount of people I managed to exert my will over was 11 or 12 on Imps, and 15-18 on Rebs. This was a few months ago, and I still have the demo, but I haven't used it. I'll probably end up syncing it to Hall of The Mountain King.

an ye meme magik is kool an it helps so das pretti gud i gess

 

[Lessen]

Getting people to spam cultist constitutes "meme magic."

I got about four or five people to form a Mandalorian squad for a few rounds with whoever-had-the-best-K (usually me) as Mand'alor, the leader. But even people who were ostensibly in on it seemed to have very little interest in really working together or following orders, except, like, one or maybe two at the most.

also had the same situation with a clone squad a while back. I have a fond memory of charging out yelling "SUPPRESSING FIRE" and actually being rewarded with a lot of them charging behind me and things going pretty well.

like, yes, you demonstrate that it's possible to get people to all use one class via Meme Magic (by which i mean the inherent humor of all being the same class), but even if you accomplish that then it's hard to get them to coordinate well and even harder to get people to coordinate well with a mix of classes (like soldiers plus a support force user). Although one of the most plausible Meme Armies one can make is Vader + Officer + Stormies, or Kylo + Phasma + Stormies.

although if everyone is using the same class then they necessarily "coordinate" to some degree by tending towards using the same strategy

 

[Rosh+]

Getting people to spam cultist constitutes "meme magic."

I got about four or five people to form a Mandalorian squad for a few rounds with whoever-had-the-best-K (usually me) as Mand'alor, the leader. But even people who were ostensibly in on it seemed to have very little interest in really working together or following orders, except, like, one or maybe two at the most.

also had the same situation with a clone squad a while back. I have a fond memory of charging out yelling "SUPPRESSING FIRE" and actually being rewarded with a lot of them charging behind me and things going pretty well.

like, yes, you demonstrate that it's possible to get people to all use one class via Meme Magic (by which i mean the inherent humor of all being the same class), but even if you accomplish that then it's hard to get them to coordinate well and even harder to get people to coordinate well with a mix of classes (like soldiers plus a support force user). Although one of the most plausible Meme Armies one can make is Vader + Officer + Stormies, or Kylo + Phasma + Stormies.

although if everyone is using the same class then they necessarily "coordinate" to some degree by tending towards using the same strategy

Eh, I found it ez to coordinate them. I just had to get all the high K/D players to agree with my ideas by asking them in /tell.

"Let's grab the wall above throne door and wait till they open the door, then we will drop down, guys."

"Ye"
"wat he sed"
"IM FUCKING ERECT LETS DO IT"

Then they would all hide above the door with me. It's a group mentality thing. If everyone else is doing it, I should be doing it too, etc, etc...

 

[Lessen]

yeah, I can see that. My point then being that it's hard to get people to work together while doing different and more complicated things. Like
- Gunners: Follow the Sith's lead and orders, don't block each other's sight lines, do a bunch of suppressive fire and shit
- Sith: Give orders and reflect grenades
- Officer: Stay alive and in a good position.

i mean that requires players to be experienced, strategic, AND willing to follow orders, so it's a lot to ask. I've had times where people will follow along with my meme dream but then will blatantly ignore my orders in favor of trying to lead the squad themselves (or just go off on their own and die). I kind of want to just inspire an overall meta of soldier squads sticking together under an elected officer but that's an even bigger and less plausible dream.

(and it's not that i personally want to be an officer. I just think that having an officer that everyone listens to makes the force work together better.)

I will keep in mind your trick of /telling the good players directly so they feel honored and more likely to Bend To My Will

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

People get the impression soldier is weak and don't really understand that numbers is the strength of the soldier class. I think a little wiggle room to spend points in the soldier class would make it look more viable to lone wolf. That removal of CC2 and making them super slow makes them noticeably different compared to before because it takes forever for me to catch up to the fights.

Especially when people are not playing ET, when one of my reasons for playing soldier is that I don't want to walk back to the battle I want to spawn in it.

Spoilered because its game-play balance idea and because there isn't a soldier thread except for this one.

Spoiler

I had got the idea yesterday, a what if armor and ammo was cheaper on soldier. I think its 0-4-6? For Armor and ammo.
What if its 0-2-5?

So if you get max ammo and armor, you would have 6 points left to spend and based on a build you are using you could throw those 6 points into a weapon upgrade, a grenade, whatever you want that you can't afford.

 

[Diddy]

It's hard to get people to play soldier/commander or adapt strategies at all.

I think Rally should be at least free, if not mandatory.