Frenzy's 4:30AM ideas for melee changes

FrenzY

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I was going to post this in the dev area, but I decided it may be best to post here and see what you guys think about some of these proposed melee changes. I'd be interested in hearing what other melee-related ideas you may have as well!

General:
  • Switching to melee and holding block directly over a conc/frag nade absorbs 50% of damage for nearby teammates.
  • Kicks allowed mid-air (look at jedi/sith as example)
  • All classes (excluding Deka and SBD) can now roll getup if in melee.

Soldier:
  • Close Combat 2 added - Allows for Funbash, rolling side getups in melee and ET knockdown recovery. - 6 points
    • Yes, I said Funbash, not Gunbash.

ET/Commander:
  • Close Combat 1 Added - Allows for Fun Gunbash and rolling getups in melee - 4 points

Mando:
  • New: Beskar Armor added - 18ish points
    • 50% damage reduction to melee
    • Saber damage reduced by 50%
    • Ignores blob and secondary nade knockback.
    • Plays a different bodyhit sound when hit.
  • Mandos without Jetpack now have melee and speed perks:
    • Runs at Hero speed
    • Can roll to quickly get-up
    • Quick getup (spacebar) if in melee.
  • Mandos knocked down in melee may now use forward and backwards kick getups
  • Uppercuts now can be used while flying - causes 15 damage and staggers if saberist is blocking.
  • Flying kicks have a knockback multiplier depending on how fast the mando is flying towards them.

ARC:
  • Can do Jedi flipkicks (as seen in some Legends classes like Thrawn, or as seen in base) with Dexterity 3
  • Can use quick getup in melee!
  • Can roll to get-up (except when holding PLX)

Wook:
  • Can pick up dead bodies and hurl them at opponents.
    • This is why I shouldn't post things at 4:30AM ;D
 
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Melee Mando

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All of these sound great aside from beskar being prohibitively expensive. I'd say closer to 10-15 points, drop the part where it ignores blob/nade knockdowns and maybe the melee damage reduc, and have it work as a combo of mag plating and cortosis as seen on SBDs.

Also would like more details about the jetpack unequiping thing. If mandos get an extra 10ish points to spend, but the jetpack costs 10 that'd make sense.

Also also, jetpack uppercuts don't seem super necessary, holding use already turns off your jetpack so getting that working seems like a hassle.

Aside from that, this looks like great stuff, would 10/10 love to get hit by a wook-tossed body or jump on a nade for my team.

Edit: thought of a couple more things I'd like to see. Would be nice to have an option for regening fuel, having it cost around the same as fuel 3.
Also seriously having blaster bolts ping off the beskar like they do with mag plating would be very sexy.
 
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FrenzY

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All of these sound great aside from beskar being prohibitively expensive. I'd say closer to 10-15 points, drop the part where it ignores blob/nade knockdowns and maybe the melee damage reduc, and have it work as a combo of mag plating and cortosis as seen on SBDs.
Perhaps there are two levels, the second giving some invulnerability to blobs / nades? Perhaps not.

Also also, jetpack uppercuts don't seem super necessary, holding use already turns off your jetpack so getting that working seems like a hassle.
I don't think it would be too much of a hassle, was picturing it as something which maybe replaces punch when flying. Mainly I want to see some flying uppercuts happen!
Aside from that, this looks like great stuff, would 10/10 love to get hit by a wook-tossed body or jump on a nade for my team.
;D
 
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cannonfodder

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I think ARC flipkicks would be super strong, cause I'd be seeing people just dex roll in, block cancel, then double-tap jump to get an instant knockdown.

Not a huge fan of Arc quick getup specifically, mostly because of how strong it would be tied with dex rolls.

If blobs and Nades staggered Beskar Mandos for a short duration instead of being nullified, that'd be fine.

It'd also be cool if holding Block in melee with Beskar decreased Saber damage even further, and maybe caused a slight bounce like cortosis. (65-70% isn't all that bad for styles that arent blue/cyan -which could be fine considering how strong blue is in open mode-, would convert 240 damage yellow to 84-72). I see the engagement being similar to Jedi V SBD, with more evasion/gadget usage.
 

FrenzY

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I think ARC flipkicks would be super strong, cause I'd be seeing people just dex roll in, block cancel, then double-tap jump to get an instant knockdown.

Not a huge fan of Arc quick getup specifically, mostly because of how strong it would be tied with dex rolls.

If blobs and Nades staggered Beskar Mandos for a short duration instead of being nullified, that'd be fine.
Good points! I'm not a fan of block cancels, personally. I'd probably be hung if I got those removed, though.
It'd also be cool if holding Block in melee with Beskar decreased Saber damage even further, and maybe caused a slight bounce like cortosis. (65-70% isn't all that bad for styles that arent blue/cyan -which could be fine considering how strong blue is in open mode-, would convert 240 damage yellow to 84-72). I see the engagement being similar to Jedi V SBD, with more evasion/gadget usage.
I like it.
 

Melee Mando

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Oooh yes the holding block with beskar! Could even have it nullify saber damage entirely for a couple swings, just use the same "block stamina" that normal melee blocking uses for tanking punches. When you run out, you stagger like normal and are open to getting sabered.

Edit: As for "I don't think it would be too much of a hassle, was picturing it as something which maybe replaces punch when flying. Mainly I want to see some flying uppercuts happen!" I think just regular m1 punching is more useful when jetpacking bc you're usually using it to chase down runners, but if there's some way to get both I'm not opposed.
 

Melee Mando

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All fun ideas, though I think nullifying a nade with block would be bad and a huge nerf to soldier class.
I think the idea is that you can throw yourself onto a nade to tank it for your team, so you'd still take full damage and most likely die bc you're directly on top of a nade. The rest of your team would take the reduced 50 or howevermany percent. Heroic sacrifice as opposed to actually ignoring it.
 

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Remember that any mechanic/feature must be implemented with clear visuals otherwise it tends to be unintuitive and not feel great.
 

Melee Mando

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Ooh also @FrenzY I dunno if this idea got shot down anywhere yet but don't forget about the wrist blade idea we talked about!

For those out of the loop, this would be available for Mandos and probably ARCs, and it'd function as a melee damage modifier for punches and katas. Basically it'd be toggled like a force power, cloak, EWEB, etc and would only be usable with melee out. Turning it on would naturally make a blade pop out of your gauntlet a la Bo-Katan or the clone commandos.

Having it on would make your punches do more damage (could have it only apply on punches with the right arm, they do asymmetrical damage already anyway), I was thinking in the realm of 16-20ish as opposed to the usual 10ish. Uppercuts would also be upgraded, from 10 to 25-30ish.

Finally, melee katas/grabs would become high damage monsters, cranked from the normal 50 up to 100 damage if not more than that. The usual animation for 3 punches could stay because it'd become 3 gut stabs, and the choke-out could be turned into a throat-slit. Unsure what the hulk smash S kata and judo throw back kata would become. They could get custom animations or just function like normal and ignore the wrist blade modifier I guess.

Edit: I was thinking having it cost maybe 6 or 7ish points? Doesn't seem super OP, but could be very useful situationally.
 
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Melee Mando

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Remember that any mechanic/feature must be implemented with clear visuals otherwise it tends to be unintuitive and not feel great.
If you don't mind my asking, are you referring to any of these features in particular here? All of them seem fairly visual to me, aside from maaybe the beskar but even that would have different hit sounds and (hopefully) ricochet blaster bolts.
 
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I like these changes except for the beskar armor reducing melee damage since melee isn't really a strong mechanic. I think kicks and jumpkicks should stagger crouching jedi and sith when they have their weapon out. I think wookiees are fine rn when it comes to melee, but I would like some ways to fight them with melee attacks. Soldiers also shouldn't require close combat training to use melee moves like kicks, jumpkicks, and katas.
 
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FrenzY

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If you don't mind my asking, are you referring to any of these features in particular here? All of them seem fairly visual to me, aside from maaybe the beskar but even that would have different hit sounds and (hopefully) ricochet blaster bolts.
I think he might be referring to the Beskar / Wook throwing ideas ;p
 

Fluffy |>

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All I want for Christmas is close combat level 2 and 3 for sold
 
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5:30 AM just before christmas attack from the shadows

I actually love that blade idea ESPECIALLY in arcs case, Maybe the blade could have a bleed of some kind but no matter how I put it in my head it seems too extra. A small update for melee w/the classes that are known for kicking ass in close quarters would be nice at the very least, after all wookies have their own fighting style and BH kind of does too. ;)

Also this conversation lines up with the seemingly long debated “give mando instant getup or rolls” which personally I think rolls would at least be nice for them since they could at least say roll off a cliff and try to jetpack If melee doesn’t get anything even closely relating to this sorta mini rework in the OP with the whole all classes “roll only with melee selected” thing which I think probably wouldn’t be needed?

Side note: I’ve also thought multiple times for some reason of a world where mandos could activate their jetpack on the ground sending them flying backwards along the ground until they flip right side up again.
 
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I mean, I would personally LOVE those sans-jetpack perks for Mandos. I'm more or less always trying to replicate the experience of playing an ARC on Mando anyways, so this gets it that much closer without breaking anything balance-wise.

The beskar I'll have to sit more on. Jedi vs. Mando already has a pretty elegant and intricate dynamic with the flamethrower and jetpack vs. push battle--it's one of the most interesting "matchups" I would say between the two sides. 100/100 Mandos already have a good chance of tanking a yellow swing, unless that was changed recently. Between the difficulty of actually getting up close to a Mando, what with the flamethrower and the jetpack, I think it'd be brutal for them to also be able to tank a swing or two reliably (especially if they're jetpacking away as they do so, resetting the flamethrower battle--and usually not in the Jedi's favour).

I don't have any developed thoughts on the other proposed changes.
 
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